Ariel Renous (CEO of Augment) on democratizing access to business education
So, Ariel, you are currently the cofounder and CEO of Augment. This is augment.org.
Ariel:The key thing and for me was, like, entrepreneurship, and I I had too many ideas. I could not focus. I didn't know what exactly I wanted to do. So that was, like, a very, very challenging time. An interesting story, to start this company from outside the US, bring all the staff US founders to Paris.
Ariel:What founders are really fighting against is indifference.
KP:Like, an average person in the street cannot get the founder of Shazam, but you had a powerful magnetic mission. You know?
Ariel:And so seeing this disconnect between traditional business education, expensive, super exclusive, and the wide range of content that was available, and of high quality Mhmm. On the Internet, That was like, okay, I need to bring those top founders and co create courses with them.
KP:Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Building Public Podcast. I'm your host, KP. And on this show, I interview world class entrepreneurs, ambitious data founders, creators, and builders on the Internet who are boldly building the future in public. This podcast is my excuse to take you all on a curious journey to understand, learn, and hopefully be inspired by the world views, insights, and stories of these fabulous people changing the world.
KP:So far, I've gotten the rare privilege to sit down with incredible guests like Gary Lee, Alexis Ohanian, Kat Cole, Sahil Lavinjee, and many more leaders. So check out the full podcast listening at hildupublicpodcast.com. Now buckle up and get ready for our latest episode. Alright. Welcome to the Building Public Podcast, Ariel.
KP:Thank you for accepting my invite and being on the show.
Ariel:Thank you, K. P. I'm super excited.
KP:So, Ariel, you are currently the co founder and CEO of Augment. For folks who are just tuning in, this is augment.org. There's a lot I wanna unpack in your story, you know, and I usually like to lay out, like, what we're gonna talk about so someone can anticipate some of these elements. So we're gonna cover the origin story of Augment. We're gonna cover what drives you, your mission, you know, behind this company.
KP:And we're gonna cover a handful of key inflection points from the beginning to today and where right now as we record, it says January 2024. And I wanted to also learn about some of the difficult and hard barriers you had to break through because every founder has those that you overcame through through Augment's journey. I also wanna learn a little bit about your road map, what's coming down this year. I'm sure you have a lot planned. And, of course, I wanna learn about this is a self awareness question at the end, which is, like, what pitfalls do you anticipate, you know, and how what what are your, thoughts around it?
KP:You know, something that I do as a personal exercise when I go into a new year, I always think about what are the 5 ways I can fail. Like, Charlie Munger has a great line, like, show me the area where I'm gonna die. I'm not gonna go there. I think so.
Ariel:Yeah.
KP:Is is so that's sort of what I have in the agenda. So let's kick it off with the origin story. Tell me how Augment got started.
Ariel:Let's go. Thanks for having me. I'm I must tell you that I'm quite excited because I I'm a strong advocate of building in public. Yes. And and we we we'll touch upon that, but building in public has changed my life and brought me to to where I am today.
Ariel:So Wow. I'm I'm I'm a big fan of the That
KP:is the that is the only quote I needed from this episode, so I think we can wrap here. Just kidding.
Ariel:Let's go.
KP:But no. Thank you. That means a lot, and I know I know I have a similar story to yours about billing in public. So I would love to unpack that in a in a second. But, yeah, let's let's talk about your origin.
Ariel:So generating story augments, So so first, what it is, we're building an alternative MBA. So super high quality business courses with the best founders, executives, CEOs, in the world. So we've built classes with Ginny Wells, the founder of Wikipedia, Chris Barton, the founder of Shazam, Steve Chen, the founder of Future. We've got the founders of of Waze, of Flying, of Eventbrite. We had the chief of staff to Jeff Bezos, the right hand of Eric Schmidt at Google.
Ariel:So it's really like building a premium online business education that's affordable, but also grounded into the realities of business from companies and products that we know of and we use in our everyday live. And so we have some sort of, like, emotional engagement towards. So this is this is augment. As you may hear, I'm, building this company from Paris, France, hence my French accent. And so it's been it's it's been an interesting story, to start this company from outside the US, bring all the staff US founders to Paris, film classes with them, here, and then, of course, sending them back to to to the US.
Ariel:And the origin story was that I'm I'm not a business person. I went to college, and I studied history. I was passionate about reading, about writing, about history stuff. But then I realized that, okay, I learned the concept of startups and entrepreneurship, and I really wanted to to do it myself. But I knew nothing about business.
Ariel:Mhmm. Nothing. So I had to learn. The natural move for me was to go to business school. And so I got into HEC, which is the top one business school here in in in Paris.
Ariel:But at the same time, I consume content on the Internet. Podcast like this one, YouTube videos, newsletters, etcetera. And I realized while I was at HEC, this top MBA, top business school in Europe, that I was learning so much more online by math, by by myself, just learning from experienced people who've done it in the past.
KP:Right.
Ariel:And so seeing this disconnect between traditional business education, expensive, super exclusive. You cannot unsee what what what what you yeah.
KP:Wow. It's fascinating. You know, I think I I can resonate with so much of what you just talked about. Right? Which is the traditional classroom, you know, education now.
KP:Business education is one angle, but there's so many adjacent, you know, fields also that are, missing out on, you know, tapping into actual practitioners' knowledge and insights. Right? Because you can tell the difference
Ariel:between
KP:someone who is academic versus someone who actually has real life, you know, battlefield experience when it comes to experiments in business. You know?
Ariel:100%. For instance, we have the founder of Lime on Augment, and he gives the class on crisis management.
KP:Wow.
Ariel:So when they when they put the first scooters on some US campuses, some kids got hurt. Yeah. And it had to talk to parents, and that's the example he takes about crisis management and how you manage these these situations. Right. We have the founder of Shazam teaching about how do you build frictionless product.
Ariel:And and the the Shazam app is arguably one of the most frictionless products Yes. In this world. You've got, like, the founder of YouTube on how do you sell a company. He sold this company for 1,700,000,000 to Google within the first shift in math. And so it it like, bringing those amazing, incredible stories to applicable lessons that you can use in your your everyday life.
Ariel:And this is what I love about the Internet. And and we just, like, churrade that, package it into a very efficient, succinct lesson, that that we deliver online. But the the why what's available on the Internet, it's it's insane. It's insane.
KP:So I I you know, one question that comes to mind naturally is I'm trying to picture myself in your shoes when you had this sort of slow realization over the course of 2 years, and you were like, okay. There has to be a better way. Something has to exist that is an alternative, and that's the catch catchphrase for alternative MBA. And so what is the next immediate thing that you did? Like, where because I'm think I'm looking at the roster you have today, which is the founder Shazam and and YouTube, and these are.
KP:I'm assuming they all must have come later, obviously. Like, what was the first, like, yes, that you heard from? And, like, what was the mind thought process that was going on in your mind about pitching and getting these people on board?
Ariel:So when when we got the idea, of course, we're like 2 kids in France. No connection whatsoever to Silicon Valley.
KP:Right.
Ariel:And so we did what like, the the the most simple and and the only free thing that we could do was just cold email everyone.
KP:Wow.
Ariel:I cold emailed everyone in Silicon Valley. And one day, Chris Barton, who's the founder of Shazan, got back to us and was like, okay. This looks interesting. Let's have dinner. And we
KP:And you were still in Paris?
Ariel:Still in Paris. And we said, of course. Let's have dinner. And so we flew to San Francisco, sat down with him. We had dinner, and the rest is history.
Ariel:And I I was still on the phone with Chris today. He became a good friend. Wow. And so yeah.
KP:So he was the first yes. He was the first, like He
Ariel:was the first yes. And once you get the first yes, suddenly, you you you hear yes more and more often. So I'm curious where no one says no.
KP:Right. I mean, of course. I mean, I think what what I'm curious is first of all, congrats. That was amazing. That that kind of high agency move where you just emailed without waiting for anyone's blessing or permission.
KP:What I wanna understand is if you look back and reflect on that pitch that you wrote, the email copy, whatever, what was the appeal of that, you think, from the from the like, objectively? Like, what were what do you think stood out for Chris?
Ariel:This is an interesting question. I think he was at the time of his life where it was a lot more about giving back Yeah. And building a legacy than anything else. And that he needed some platforms. And, and so he he was in
KP:Like an outlet. Yes.
Ariel:Exactly. He wasn't in in in this phase. And I believe he was just curious and let had nothing to show. We had nothing to show. I mean, he was curious.
Ariel:And and having done an MBA himself, I believe he also resonated with the mission.
KP:Yeah. That's you know, one one theme that I'm hearing across, so many, founder stories is the mission is so important. And we we like to think that, like, generally, business school also teaches you that mission is like some, you know, gibberish and some, like, jargon, you know, put some buzzwords. But it's actually, you know, it it it's not true, obviously. I'm sure you know this, but, like, but a great mission is a magnet that attracts Yeah.
KP:Other, you know, early believers. And sometimes I'm surprised that the early believers could be someone with such great success like Chris. I I once did a program. I had to create a crazy idea called founders founders hotline. So what I thought was, what if there was a call in hotline where people keep calling?
KP:Right? Like, 1800. In America, you have the toll free number on the billboards.
Ariel:Yeah.
KP:The 1800 doctor whatever. So I bought 1800 founder and advertised it, and we had a website. And I said, I was gonna host a online show once a week and call people call in anonymous or they can declare their name and then say, hey. Here's the pressing issue I'm struggling with. I need some advice.
KP:So I would try to give my advice or sometimes I bring guests and make them share advice on a a theme of marketing or whatever. Right? I thought this is a cool idea. Again, this is such a dumb thing looking back on it. I said, oh, that's actually a really cool idea, and I bought the domain and everything.
KP:So I cold emailed, just like you did. I cold emailed, Alex Ohanian, Brene Brown, whoever I thought were, like, very empathetic people who wanna give back. And, of course, one of the one of the many like, many of them ghosted me, obviously. That's fine. One of them happened to be Gary v, and he said yes.
KP:And this this is actually I emailed his team who forwarded it to him and we had a connection there, but still he could have said no. Right? And he said, hell yes. And within, like, 3 months, he showed up as the finale guest. We had 25,000 people dialed in that day because, you know, Gary, he has a massive audience.
Ariel:Wow.
KP:But when I look back, I always think about, like, it's not necessarily the the fact that I was very successful or the fact that I have so many connections or anything, which I did not at the time. It was purely the fact that that idea was so bold and so mission driven that at the receiving end, somebody else felt it, you know, like like Gary v. Right? And so I'm thinking the same thing. Like, an average person on the street cannot get the founder of Shazam, but you had a powerful magnetic mission.
KP:You know?
Ariel:100. And and there are so many lessons to to your story. A big one is you only need one yes. Yes. True.
Ariel:True. One yes can change your life, and one yes can lead to many, many more yeses in the future. Yes. The second is that, and I believe this is true for both our stories, is best story wins. Yes.
Ariel:And your story Yes. Is and your story is super catchy. And I I can and I can go and have dinner with a friend and say, oh, JP told me about, like, a product of his, and it's it's it's fun. It it's it's it's creative. It works.
KP:Right? So my litmus test is I do so many campaigns like this for, founders and whatever. Whichever whichever job I'm in, I'm always targeting serving founders. My litmus test is I talk to my wife. My wife is completely removed from the founder world.
KP:She's a teacher, cool teacher, and she doesn't do a shit Same. About our, you know, my life and Same
Ariel:with my girlfriend.
KP:Same thing? Oh, wow. That's so funny. So every once in a while, when I pitch, like, hey. Here's something I'm working on.
KP:What do you think? Her eyes light up, and she'll say, oh, that's a good idea. And that's a very rare compliment. I don't get that often from her.
Ariel:Yeah. Yeah.
KP:And so then that's when I know that that's a good idea. You should really put all all all force into that and proceed. So when I told founder hotline, she told me that is one of your good ideas. You know? So I was like, got it.
Ariel:This is good. Because what funders are really fighting against is indifference.
KP:Yes. Oh, yes. It's not anti reaction. It's just indifference, like you said.
Ariel:Yeah. Yeah. Anti reaction is good because it's it's it's at least a sort of reaction.
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:The because and and most people don't even get the benefit to have an entire reaction. Yeah. They get indifference.
KP:Yeah. You know, it's it's it's one of those things, Ariel, that you we have to constantly remind ourselves with is how many and it's very easy because, you know, sometimes in your career, you get busy with the minutiae, the trivial things, and the OKRs and KPIs and the, you know, the the the knick knacks the knick knacks business life. Sometimes you forget that you need to make space for big ideas. Because without a big idea, like, you cannot drive people to do something you want. It's not the copywriting, it's like I mean, they're all important but they all flow from the fountain of a big good good idea.
KP:Right? Like, a great idea, my my I learned this the hardware where if you can't sell someone in one line, you can't sell them in on a landing page. Right? 100%.
Ariel:So a
KP:great idea is just one line. It can sell itself in a line. Now you don't always get there. You need a lot of bad ideas to get to the great idea, but you know when you see it. You know?
Ariel:100%. And you know when we started, the easy path would have been to say, oh, we're building the best business courses in France.
KP:Right.
Ariel:Easy. Yeah. Easy. Yeah. We would never have raised, we raised 2,000,000 in in increase seed and then a total of 6,000,000.
Ariel:Never, we would never have done that for this idea. No. We went, okay. Let's build the best business courses in the world.
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:The best instructors, the best quality, the best brand. And a good idea or a big idea attracts capital Yes. Talent and support.
KP:Yes.
Ariel:And so
KP:And you know what I think is on that note?
Ariel:It's it's counterintuitively easy content counterintuitively easier to do something big.
KP:Than do something small and work your way to the I I this is a very, very non obvious lesson that I learned too in my career. Because in the early days, when I was very raw, when I was very young, I had big ideas, but I had no proof of work or no, you know because I was completely fearless. Right? You know, when you're 21, you're, like, fearless. And then slowly, like, I'm 35 now.
KP:So slowly reality kicks in and, you know, be realistic, be pragmatic and all that kicks in and look at your peers and they're all like, be, like, playing the safe reality game, which is fine. So you forget the fact that, just like you said, to really make a dent in the society or in the universe, like, or among the top people you want, you cannot ship you cannot transact with small ideas because they don't have the time and energy and all that. You know? And so you need big ideas. It's it's it's very counterintuitive, like you said.
Ariel:Yeah.
KP:Because it requires risk. It looks dumb. Right? Like, when I pitched the on a shop line, it was like, it sounds it sounds so dumb. Like, why would somebody wanna call a radio thing when we have the Internet?
KP:Like, you know, like, why would we need? But my point was, like, it's a different experience, you know, you just gotta try it. So it's like it's just, you know same thing with billing in public, back to what you were saying. Billing in public on paper is the dumbest idea, you know, on paper. Right?
KP:Because you're like, why do you wanna be vulnerable? Why do you wanna give away your secrets or, like, tell them what you're doing and all that? But we know human beings cannot put down a story. With building in public, we get to weave a story in real time and leave them on cliffhanger. So they have to tune in next Monday morning or whenever we tweet, whenever we make the episode.
KP:What is the next thing? What happened? So I made a tweet, December 14th about the fact that I'm, I don't know if you've seen that when I was switching from, winding up my company, BIPF, the fellowship company, and then opening myself up for a next role, what I'm doing next. K. I wrote a full thesis on what happened 2023 last year, how many cohorts I served, how much fun I had on all that revenue I made.
KP:I mean, not super detailed but, like, rough figures. But I also learned that there were some fundamental flaws in that business model, and so this year and next year, whatever, I wanted to switch to working, you know, at a company, at a start up. And I got, like, 25 people thanking me and saying, like, congrats, man. Like, so brave. So I'm like, I don't think I did anything brave because by now, I've been doing billing in public for 4 years that I just did what I thought was the right move, but what what happened there is that that became a magnet for luck.
KP:So I got, like, so many DMs from founders, and I haven't announced this yet. This is the first time talking about it. I got a CMO of a $1,000,000,000 company DM me from that thread.
Ariel:Wow.
KP:And I haven't announced it, so I can't share this yet, but I'm joining that company.
Ariel:Wow.
KP:It And it took me 40 minutes to write a thread. You know? And so there's so many people waiting. What's next? What's going on?
KP:What's going on? I haven't shared what's going on yet because I wanna sign the contract and, like, you know
Ariel:Wow. Wow.
KP:But the you know, so that is the power of building a power and you know this. I've seen it. And so if you don't put yourself out there like that now some people, like, I'm sure 2% of them maybe they thought, oh, KP is too, like, thirsty or too public or too I don't know I don't know what they may think, but I'm just saying it is risky. It requires some risk and vulnerability to open up, but I I can't think of anything better to do. You know?
Ariel:A 100%. And, actually, that's how I got my first job, and that's how I raise money.
KP:Really? Yeah. Tell me more tell us more about that, actually. I'm curious. Yeah.
Ariel:My last year at HEC, the business school, to pass the the the the the MBA, you need to write big paper. Okay. And I was like, there is no part. No one is gonna read that ever. Maybe my, professor will skim through it for, like, 5 minutes, but that's it.
Ariel:So I just published it. I I turned that into a series of blog posts, on the creator economy and media businesses, and I just published that online, which got me in touch with the founders of JettySmack, a multibillion dollar company. They were like, this is interesting. Come work with us, which I did.
KP:That's your oh, that's oh, yeah. That's why I saw that on LinkedIn. You were a creative program for them.
Ariel:Exactly. So I was working at at at, Jensmag. It's like big creator economic company. So they go to YouTube stars, and they bring their content to other platforms. So mainly Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, and TikTok.
Ariel:And I got the opportunity from these blog posts to build the celebrity business for Jelly Smash.
KP:Wow.
Ariel:So going to athletes and chefs and comedians and TV stars, and and offering the the Jelly Smash products and services. That's how I learned how to reach out and and and connect with pretty much anyone that led to augment later on. But had I not published this piece, I I would never have gotten this job. You know?
KP:The also the other thing is even the the funding announcements that you publish. And I think one of the recent ones, you made a thread about it. And in the thread, of course, there was the announce there was a talk about the the funding round and the race. But to be honest, that was only 10% interesting to anybody like me because that's like you know, of course, it's you've got the funding. That's sure.
KP:The 90% that was interesting was your beliefs around why augment should exist, why what do you believe, and, you know, and that is authentic, unique belief that you have. Right? So that triggered me to, like, because I think the same way. Of course, that's how I was that's why I was on deck. That's why I'm serving founders.
KP:That's why like, I believe in cohorts and so on. Like, this is obvious. That's why I was you know what, Ariel? I would love to do a podcast episode on you, and here we are 2 months later. Yes.
KP:Right?
Ariel:Exactly. Who
KP:knows who's listening to this when it goes live?
Ariel:100%. You know, I I I made so many friends on the Internet by just being myself and sharing some stuff.
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:Some some friends I went skiing with and and and and, you know, we became really, really good friends. I I would I I I was at a friend's wedding whom I met on Twitter, last summer.
KP:Wow.
Ariel:But just because there's so few people being out there and and sharing genuinely
KP:And that's the key part. That's the key part. Right? It's genuinely
Ariel:That's the key part. Of course. Of course. It's very easy to to talk like a brand and to talk like a a a multibillion dollar company, but it's that's you're not gonna connect with with with anyone.
KP:Right.
Ariel:Yeah. It's the the genuine parts that that's, of course, super important.
KP:You know? So one other factor that I always top of mind for me is I was reading this biography, 2 dog by Phil Knight. Right? Nike's founder.
Ariel:Yeah. I I have it just before. Yeah.
KP:It's on my nightstand in my bedroom, and I was reading, like, you know, I'm, like, underlining. Oh my god. It's one of my favorite books. One of the things what he talks about is that he he says he wishes he documented I'm sure you you know, if you remember, he wishes he documented more of the first 5, 6, 7 year years journey. Right?
KP:Because he completely forgot about all the decisions they took, all the ups and downs and highs and lows. After they go to IPO, of course, then you have, like, a staff and you have, like, people document. And he always says, like, I just wish I documented the 1st 10 years of the company. And I think that's one of the things that I love about billing in public is that I have a record of everything. You know?
KP:I mean, not like
Ariel:I love it.
KP:Not everything, but, like, the big inflection points. Right?
Ariel:I I never I never thought of that this way.
KP:But think about it. Like and so people are always afraid, like, what if that doesn't work and you have to be embarrassed about that thing? I'm like, okay. Fine. So what?
KP:But what if it works? Right?
Ariel:Must be a 100%.
KP:The upside is so much higher than the downside. Right?
Ariel:And and what is making and what is building it in tablet makes it work.
KP:Yeah. Exactly. And so it's I think it's it's it's it's again, like, we we know this in theory. We can get it. I think it's just a, like, a very, very few people, I feel like, really embody this, you know, because just you have to have a certain kind of success with it, like the way you had it with Jazam's founder, like, you have to see it for yourself to believe, like, oh, you know what?
KP:This works. As long as they're authentic, this works. And so once I did get an email, I was like, I can email anybody on the human on on the planet. Like, you you have a sound you feel like I can as long as it's valuable to them, you can email anybody on the planet.
Ariel:You know, some one day, we brought the building public mantra, very, very far because so, we do super heavy production. There are 30 people on set. Yeah. The videos that we produce are super high quality. Right.
Ariel:And so there was this investor that I real I really wanted on my cap table. And so I just brought him on set.
KP:Nice.
Ariel:So that's that's, like, next level building intelligence to bring someone
KP:Yes.
Ariel:To just because you want this person to see you in action, Yeah. And and and and that convince, this angel investor to to to to invest in the company because, oh, actually, what you do by by building in public, you tell people, oh, this is real. This is legit. Look at the progress. One step further is, like, building in public physically, having this person watching you build
KP:Build it.
Ariel:The project or whatever. So that was that was very fun. And, of course, production and and filming sessions are super, super fun.
KP:I was gonna ask you about that. Actually, how did you, like, how did that come about? Like, how did you make, like, the first ever course creation happen?
Ariel:So 2 years ago, I knew nothing about production.
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:Nothing. Wow. And because, you know, it's
KP:very apparent. Like, it seems like you didn't go to film school or anything. Right? You went
Ariel:to Oh, no. No. No. No. I've I've I've I really I knew nothing about that.
Ariel:Turns out, it's, it's not that hard because you tell me to do it yourself. You can just pay people to do it. And so that's what we did. I interviewed, tens of production companies. Some of them are, like, were, like, too big and too expensive, and they don't even want to talk to you.
Ariel:Some of the ones, you're just, like, one random guy saying, yeah. I can I can do it for super cheap, and you don't want that either? So you have to find the right balance, which I believe we did because we did 12 filming sessions with the same production company. We've been super happy with them. I believe that the the only thing that we did right was just to take our time and talk to a lot of different, potential partners.
Ariel:And once you've got the the the the good one, just like you, know we know exactly how to work together. I I learned all the technical terms, so I know a bit more about what's going on, and and I know how a a film in there is supposed to to to to take this. But, yeah, you just need to find the right people, serious, guys, and they 100% deliver.
KP:What I love about the way you operate so far from what I'm hearing, Ariel, is that there's a couple times where you said I knew nothing, and then you followed up by saying I figured it out. I love that energy. I love that mindset of, oh, I just knew nothing. Because a lot of people would view that as a blocker. And I see I feel like you you just, like, accept it, and you're like, okay.
KP:I don't know anything here. Let me start here, and then we'll go figure it out on the way. Right? That's a
Ariel:It's interesting. And and maybe, like, something that's that's been quite liberating liberating for me is, I know today is not very fashionable to say that you you need to raise money, and and and and it's it's it's, bootstrapping is more popular these days.
KP:Right.
Ariel:But something, like, changed in my mind once I raised money for the first time
KP:Mhmm.
Ariel:Is I realized, oh, actually, my job is to is not to actually do the thing. It's to collect the money from people who have money and pay other people to do whatever I'm supposed to do.
KP:Right.
Ariel:And that changed a lot of things for me, even personally, in the sense that, oh, I like, the the range of possibilities
KP:Are massive.
Ariel:Is is is much broader because it's not it's not limited to what I know or what my friends know. It's, actually, I can do basically anything. I just need to tell people I need money to do that. Collect the money, and then pay other people to do what I what I want them to do. And so
KP:I don't think that's Again, it goes back to story. It again goes back to, like, the the power of a story because you're telling a story to 1 group, which is the investor group, and then you're taking you know, you're collecting the resource of money in that sense, and then you're then telling the story of, hey. What do we wanna achieve to your production team? Right? So it's just the story again and again.
KP:What was surprising about fundraising for you? You because you're a first time founder. Correct? Or have you done
Ariel:Yeah.
KP:Okay. So what were a a couple counterintuitive lessons about fundraising and just, you know, talking to investors?
Ariel:So many counterintuitive lessons. Oh, very? Yeah. Yeah. Some, like, very tactical ones, like, done to a business plan.
Ariel:I believe, like, there is a negative correlation between having a business plan and raising a pre seed round. I was quite lucky in the sense that I did a 6 month internship in VC.
KP:Mhmm.
Ariel:And so I learned so much, and knowing the terms and just the the the the jargon and and and being able to understand when you go on a on a on a fund's website, what's their investment strategy, how do they stand in terms of, like, deployment period, how much money they have left, what's their network, and understanding all that. Basically, reading the the mind of someone who's, in front of you just because you know exactly how the economics in venture works because you've worked in ventures
KP:in
Ariel:the past. That's been, like, game changing because you know exactly how to focus in terms of, like, okay. This person, like, we fit 1 100% into their friend's strategy. We know exactly that, like, that we would be a right fit versus other fans. Like, it's not even worth talking to them
KP:Right.
Ariel:For many different reasons.
KP:Right.
Ariel:I think so. In any in any negotiation, it's just like understanding the other's pure pattern, which may be a bit obscure when you're a founder, but really studying the economics of venture funds and how they plan to generate returns. And what's what's, like, a great return for one fund. Maybe it may be different for for another one. Just understanding that and then calibrating your pitch to the investor is super important.
Ariel:Right.
KP:With with augment, what do you see in the long term? Like, are you envisioning a 10 year plan in your head? Or not a plan, like, a business plan, maybe the the q q one, q to q three, q four, but, like, do you see a massive company could be formed from here?
Ariel:So the the 100 year plan
KP:I love that. It's not just 10 years, a 100 years. I love that.
Ariel:It's to build the best business courses in the world. Mhmm. And and so the the the mission is is is so it's so simple. But, you know, like and I I love just to wake up every day, and and we picked one thing. For us, it's like business courses.
Ariel:And our mission is just the best in the world. Just this we do one thing really, really, really good. And and and I I believe I want to be the the the next HBS, a super high quality brand of online business programs, grounded into the realities of business, by the people who've done it in the past. That's that's augment like, that's the vision. And that's I don't know.
Ariel:This, for me, it's like the the most exciting business I could ever, dreamed of building.
KP:And your current ICP is someone who is on the fence of joining a traditional MBA program or someone who may have joined it, but they want to augment, like, their learning journey?
Ariel:The main ICP at the moment is really doing this zero to one for people who know nothing about business, and we bring them for I know nothing. Like, I was myself. History student. I know nothing about business. To have got the foundations of business strategy, entrepreneurship, finance, leadership, management, strategy, sales, accounting, etcetera.
Ariel:So we do this 0 to 1. If you are, like, super experienced, done to augment. Go do a traditional MBA or or do a very specific, online marketing program or whatever. But it's and it's it's been fascinating to to meet with all the students we have. They come from so many different backgrounds.
Ariel:We got, like, a lot of doctors, designers, data engineers, scientists, people who know nothing about business, and we're the 0 to 1. Right. Making those seemingly complex topics easy to digest, very, like, super tangible because based on real products and services that they use and they love.
KP:Right. So when when you started this, was were there other competitors or players in the space? Like, I'm what comes to mind is masterclass because that's their course product. Right? But that's a course product.
KP:And then, obviously, from a cohort point of view, there was Reforge. This is 2, 3 years ago. And then there was OnDeck, which was not necessarily a structured MBA program, but they were more so, like, community, you know, around a particular fellowship or a particular niche. So when you entered the market, what was your assessment of these players?
Ariel:I love them. And they're, like, a big source of inspiration.
KP:I love master class. Do like like Yeah.
Ariel:Yeah. Yeah. I I love master class. I I I I know the founders. I I I watch a lot of their of their classes.
Ariel:I like reforge even though it's a bit like it's product oriented, and I'm I'm not really a product person. And so I I I resonate a bit less with the content just because of my position and test. But, I love those companies. I believe that the the biggest competitor in EdTech is the status quo, is the is is people not learning. And so I'm super happy, and I and I root for the for their success.
Ariel:And and I I really want people to have as many learning high quality learning opportunities as possible. Right. And and so so I we're fighting for the same cause.
KP:Right. I love that you're viewing this as a, you know, non zero sum game. Right? A positive sum.
Ariel:And and you know why I I I I even called email, Brian Balfour, the the founder of FreeForge, 1 week or 2 weeks ago, telling, like, congrats. You're you're you're doing super great. I love what you do. We're doing this. I'm sure we can learn a lot from one another.
Ariel:But and and that's it. You know? Wish you the best.
KP:How do you so you know what's fascinating? Like, 7, 8 years ago, I heard the phrase I think it was some some someone from Aviso's, you know, stories around, like, don't focus on the competitor, you know, focus on customer. Yeah. And I was reading his book, Invent and Wonder, where Amazon like, he was so maniacal. Like, I don't think I thought I didn't expect that much intensity in terms of customer.
KP:Right? Like, I know I mean, I care about customers. Like, you seem like you care about, but he was actually blinded, like, like, you know, and their caption the the the wording they use, the choice of words they use is very telling about Earth's most customer obsessed company. Right?
Ariel:And And I that's the statement. We're talking about, like, a big idea that that's That's
KP:the statement. Right? I'm like, I I took the screenshot, and I went like, you know what? I'm gonna save this in a document where I when I first start my company, that should be one of the foundation of my values because, like, think about that. Earth's Earth's most customer obsessed company is a value that we all can share.
KP:It's not a zero something. Like, only Amazon doesn't have trademark on that, you know, care. But it's such a great philosophy because every time I listen to some of the interviews, every time somebody brings up iPad, which is Kindle, he would always talk about, I love iPad. I wish all the best for iPad. Because iPad's like 800 times bigger market size as opposed as opposed to Kindle at the time.
KP:But he would say, you don't understand my audience, Jeff Bezos was say. My audience is different. They want to hold something in their hand late at night with no special lights and, like, you know, apps and games and shit, and just tap, tap, tap, and black and white read. And so my audience wanna continue the love for reading. So the way I felt that he was obsessed about understanding that customer base ICP, He almost didn't care about I mean, like, he almost didn't not care, but, like, he didn't, like, worry about the other players who were doing other things.
KP:And I thought in a market like yours and there's so many markets. I talked to Beehive cofoundercofounder, CEO, where, you know, there's Beehive, there's Substack, there's, ConvertKit. Like, some of these markets have multiple players. So, like, you have to have that kind of maniacal, relentless focus on the customer. Otherwise, your attention can get just drifted away into, like, what competitors are doing.
KP:Let's play catch up. You know?
Ariel:Any entrepreneur would tell you that it's so easy to go on someone else's website and say, oh, this is such a good idea. This is why they're doing so great, and try to copy and implement that into your product. It never works.
KP:Works. Yeah.
Ariel:And and it's it's it's never the the right way to to have an idea. And it's and and and we've done it a few times, and and always we realize, actually, maybe they did a mistake or maybe it's just like, the tip of the iceberg, and we don't know exactly why why they do it this way. And we are in a different business, and we've got different ICP and brand and persona and and and go to market or whatever. So a 100%.
KP:Yeah. I also wanna share something that came to mind, Ariel, which is I think you'll appreciate as a founder in the same situation. I mean, I love these founder stories now. As you can tell already, I'm a huge nut about early stories of great founders because I feel like that's where the magic is. Right?
KP:So this is like I took notes on this the other day. I was listening, to a podcast called Founders by David Sandro.
Ariel:Love it.
KP:Love it. Right? Like, oh, shout out, David Senra. Love it. In one of the episodes where he's talking about, of course, the founding of, story of Amazon, what I loved there was the year Amazon was founded, it was 1994.
KP:2 or 3 years into the game, they were still, like, figuring out their MVP and figuring out their you know? And it was so niche that it was only they were only selling books online. Right? It was just books, which is crazy to think about. Such discipline with IC like, with the with the niche.
KP:Just books, nothing else. But his pitch to investors was, we're gonna build everything store. So from day 1, he knew we're gonna build you're gonna buy whatever you want. You can buy boats today on Amazon. You can buy whatever.
KP:But his focus, maniacal focus again, was just on books and getting that right. Like you said, like, highest world class experience on books. Right? I took notes on this because I I googled to see how big Barnes and Noble was. And Barnes and Noble in America is the retail physical store Yeah.
KP:Yeah. Yeah. That you as you may have heard, and they were $2,000,000,000 in revenue, 2,000,000,000, and they had 20,000 employees at the time. That is when Bezos decides, I'm gonna go against them. How much balls and guts should you have to think, that is the biggest competitor in the area, in the space?
KP:I'm gonna go after them? And, of course, they scoff at him, they laugh at him because they're like, you're a lily putt, like a minnow compared to how big we are with 20,000 employees. But he would he he would he didn't care, obviously. He was betting on the Internet. And so they come join the party 3 years into the game.
KP:They have a dotcom website also, but they're not as focused as he is in the Internet store. They are still doing retail and all that. So eventually, they lose out. And the CEO invites him to buy him by Amazon. And he laughs and he says, no.
KP:You can't buy us. Of course not. I'm not gonna sell Amazon to you. And the guy threatens him by saying, no. We're gonna we're gonna do, like, video games, DVDs, other things on our dotcom.
KP:And Amazon is like, I don't care. You know?
Ariel:I'm gonna do it too. I'm gonna do it too.
KP:So I thought that was such a, like, huge reminder because we always sometimes especially the founders that I talk to, sometimes they they get threatened by, oh, there's another big player in the game. Right? Like, oh, whale, you know, big whale in the game and as you're a small fish. That is the biggest freaking whale you can imagine. $2,000,000,000 in revenue.
KP:Not valuation, revenue. And then 20,000 employees. And this guy thinks we can do something here. And as I wrote, I took a note of this, something for me, for my own inspiration, From the founding day to Amazon becoming a $1,000,000,000,000 comp it was 24 years. In 24 years, a balding guy in New York and, you know, eventually moves to Seattle creates a $1,000,000,000,000 company out of thin air.
KP:How crazy is that? Like, it's just like think about history of mankind, how long it took for the first $1,000,000,000,000 company to be created. 1000 of years. And within 24 years, this guy creates the next one. Of course, he's riding the, the Internet wave, but a note to myself I took from that episode was, what is the next wave, KP?
KP:And what is your 25 year story? I took my note for that. I'm like, because that's message. Right? And, of course, even if you don't create a $1,000,000,000,000 company, why can't we settle for a $100,000,000,000 company?
KP:You know what I mean? So when you were telling me the 100 year story, I was like, yeah. That's the horizon you gotta think about. We can't play the q one, q two game. No.
Ariel:So Love that.
KP:I feel like we could go for, like, forever on, you know, chatting. The also, it's also a testament to me about what are the kind of founders who get inspired by stories like that. Was this who found it who find it to be who find so many flaws in, like, some Amazon or some Apple or something. I'm like, that is usually a testament of, like, who really gets the point there. Right?
KP:So
Ariel:Yeah. I I I cannot be more passionate about this type of stories. I built an entire business based on these stories.
KP:Exactly. So obviously
Ariel:And we I I I had, like, so many great anecdotes from Anne Hayat. She teaches on Anne Hayat, and she she teaches on Augment, and she's been Jeff Bezos' right hand for the first four years at Amazon, and then she became the 1st ever chief of staff at Google
KP:Wow.
Ariel:For another 10 years, something like that. And she tells some amazing stories from the early days of both Google and and Amazon. And I I I I remember the first time we met, I would like to prepare the course. There was, having a cup a coffee in front of the sea, and she was, like, telling all the stories, and I was with my notebook writing them down. And I felt so energized and with this feeling that I I I had, like, a a firsthand witness of, like, the greatest man in history in the early days of, like, the the birth of the one of the greatest companies of all time.
KP:Juggernaut. Right? One of the biggest. Yeah. Okay.
KP:So let let's get into, in lieu of time, I'm trying to make sure that we cover a couple good points. Let's get into some of the difficult barriers that you had to overcame in in the journey.
Ariel:Interestingly enough, I I've I've I've been willing to be an entrepreneur for 5, 6, 7 years before I actually started Augment, and I believe that the the most challenging period was before. Now I, of course, I have a lot of challenges, but those are, like, the expected ones. And and, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm ready for them, and I embrace. But when I look back at my younger self in, like, 3, 4 years ago, I was this kid that I I wanted to build a company. I was, my mind was, like, parting with ideas, but I could not focus.
Ariel:I did not really fall in love with 1 specifically. I didn't know also how to approach the next start up. I didn't know what's, like, the what was the first step. And this period of time where you're just, like, exploring, it seems like a lifetime.
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:You have no you you you you you you have no idea whether it would end or not and and and whether the outcome would be positive or not. And I I believe that at that time, I I I was completely lost working, but not enjoying it, and and feeling that I was missing on the key thing. And for me, it was, like, entrepreneurship. And I I had too many ideas. I could not focus.
Ariel:I didn't know what exactly I wanted to do. So that was, like, a very, very challenging time.
KP:What's your advice for someone who is, like, there today in that in those shoes right now?
Ariel:Learn as much as you can. And this is also why I'm building augment, but, study business. Mhmm. Really. Because I believe that my feeling of, just not moving forward was because I did not clearly understand what's the right first step, what's the second next step, and that had I had a better business education or or listened to more podcasts like this one, okay, I would have had a clearer picture of the entrepreneurial journey, and that would have been that would that would have unlocked entrepreneurship slightly earlier, I believe, for me.
KP:I think a lot of the times, it's just like hearing hearing founders who are 5, 6, 7, 8 steps ahead of us, even, like, mention what they went through. Right? The soul searching and the exploration. That reassurance itself is so soothing.
Ariel:And that's part of the journey.
KP:That's part of the journey.
Ariel:And, of course, but but for me, it's it's the the the most painful part because now I've got a lot of challenges, but I'm not I I know I'm on track, and I know I know those challenges are part of the journey. Yeah. Whereas in the past, those challenges were you expect the journey to start, but it never starts. And so That's you're in this in in, like, this this feeling of despair and, yeah, you you you you don't know whether it's gonna end.
KP:I was gonna ask you this, which is how did you navigate? Like, how did you manage to arrive at one idea? Because you were talking about potentially 4, 5, 6, 7 ideas in your head. How did you get rid of all of them and just, like, get the clear focus on augment?
Ariel:Hundreds of ideas.
KP:So 4 is a low ball number. Okay. Honestly.
Ariel:Yeah. And every now and then, I I'm on my computer and I open a file and it's a random pitch deck for an an obscure idea. I completely forgot that I built, like, 5, 6 years ago, and I was like, wow. So many so many different ideas. But I believe I believe that at the end, they were all, I don't know, surfing around the same, like, media businesses, education.
Ariel:And so I believe that they they gravitated towards augment.
KP:Augment. Yeah.
Ariel:And I had to combine something that was, like, visually interesting, and and design is very important for us. Teaching about business because that's part of my journey and and and and and what I want to do, to learn from the best, the celebrity parts, connected to my my my past job. And so I I don't know. I feel I I I I I gravitated towards this idea, and then it became kind of clear at some point. But I I didn't have this big moment, the oh, I should build this.
Ariel:And, actually, I had so many moments on very bad ideas, that I I I I I I I don't believe in them anymore.
KP:Interesting. That is a counterintuitive insight also. Right?
Ariel:I I think so.
KP:I think so. Expects, like, some kind of a light bulb moment. Like, woah. You know, this is
Ariel:The the the best ideas are I don't know. They they they they they come from within and Yes. Build conviction over a long period of time, and and then they become obvious. Yes. And it seemed that that, like, they've always been there.
Ariel:You've built this conviction over time. But, yeah, I was like, oh, I'm gonna build, like, a premium education platform for kids. Oh, no. Actually, I'm not really passionate about kids. So what that's about and so you you you see, like, you're playing around with many different aspects and then, oh, actually, all the pieces fit together and makes all sense.
KP:You know, I one of the things that David sent around the founders podcast talks about is that how companies are basically extensions of founders, you know, personality. Right? Like
Ariel:100%. And
KP:I feel like the way you described it made me seem like you're kind of like looking in the mirror and assembling the pieces of the puzzle that becomes an image of you, ultimately, and then that becomes the company. Right? And then
Ariel:over to the world. I believe that for some people, entrepreneurship is a creative act
KP:Yeah.
Ariel:Like painting or like writing something. And and Chris from Shazam actually told me that one day, that it's it's it's putting yourself out there and building something, but and some people create music and some people create companies, but, it's it's it's, comes from the same impulse.
KP:Yeah. So one last question, which is, you know, what are some pitfalls and traps that you foresee as of now and that you would love to avoid and be careful about as you navigate the journey?
Ariel:It's interesting. It's now, like, the the company is is 12 people. We we raised a little over 6,000,000, USD. We've got more than 600 students from 20 plus countries. It it it all happens super, super fast.
Ariel:Like, last year, exactly at this time, it was only Roy and myself, my cofounder and myself. Wow. Now we've got a team, and I've never managed and built a team. And I my role within the company is changing a lot. I'm learning, a lot about, okay, look, what it takes to bring a company from 10 to 100 people.
Ariel:And it's a virtually different challenge. And I believe I'm I'm I'm I was a terrible, terrible manager. I had no background. Now I believe I'm only terrible. So it's it's it's it's improved a bit, but but but clearly, building a team and and and and just, like, having people, working hard towards the submission, etcetera.
Ariel:This it's it's hard. It's tough, and so many challenges and and new things that I I I knew literally nothing about 1 year ago. Funny enough, last week, we gave, like, the the beginning of your presentation with the entire team, and I reflected on it. And I was like, okay. 1 year ago, I would have been totally I knew literally nothing about this presentation.
Ariel:I wouldn't be able to believe that I was I I would deliver this speech and this presentation because, I knew nothing about the topics I I I talked about. And so crazy, well, like, how much you can learn in a year. I've been I've been learning. Yeah. And and and it's scary at the same time because you you say, oh, I knew literally nothing last year.
Ariel:I'm sure that I will say exactly the same next year. So you it feels good and bad at the same time.
KP:You you I I think it's just the fastest way to I mean, a company forces you to level up so quickly. Right?
Ariel:Yeah.
KP:You're getting your own version of the MBA even as a as a manager.
Ariel:It's it's super meta. So I'm building an MBA and and and but that's also an MBA. And so I I yeah. It's it's it's it's very meta. I love it.
KP:I'm so so happy for your journey so far, and it brings me so much joy. Because your story is such so many so many synergistical elements that we both share. You know? And, fundamentally, it's how we operate founders. Also, funny enough, we we see the world and the future in a similar way.
KP:Right? We talked about, earlier before the recording started, we talked about how, like, I came from, a small town in India and you were in Paris. And in the future, I want my kids, hopefully, your kids, not doesn't matter where they the ZIP code, you know, where they were born or where they were raised. Like, I feel like greatness should not be concentrated in any neighborhood. Right?
KP:Greatness should be democratic. It should be, you know, democratized across the world, and the best channel we have is the Internet. And so what you guys are building is a curated layer on top of that, right, which is the best, learn from the best, and that kind of thing. So really rooting for it. I'm a big believer in that as you can tell by now and very happy and, you know, excited for where you go next.
Ariel:It was a pleasure. It was so, so fun. We have, like, the same reference. We listened to the same thing. So it was so fun to meet you, and I wish you the best.
KP:Thank you. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. And with that, it's a wrap. I'll I'll add all your links and augment, of course, links on the show notes, and hope to see you in the future episode again.
Ariel:Thank you. Thank you, Katie.
